Howard Zinn (1922 - 2010)While the pwogs mindlessly coo and chirup about their murderous God-Emperor's latest speech, Howard Zinn left this veil of tears last night. Requiescat in pace.
“We need to decide that we will not go to war, whatever reason is conjured up by the politicians or the media, because war in our time is always indiscriminate, a war against innocents, a war against children”(Update: Alas, a Pwog posts about Zinn's advocacy of collective resistance - which is quite odd as none of these demotard jellyfish would recognize resistance if it set their dumpster on fire.)
~Howard Zinn
(Update: In-between 'look-at-the-wingnut" posts, Diggy has a little footage of Zinn talking about Obama's bank giveaways. Check out the comments for some hi-larious attempts at claiming the poor guy for the demotard party.)
(Update: Holy crap! Shakes-the-Democrat actually pulled her head out of her ass long enough to cut 'n paste an obit. Honest injun! It's between a sub-moronic cartoon she "draws" and some TV show trivia shit.)
a Digby Dingbat:
ReplyDeleteTHe only true liberals are democrats. People who call themselves socialists and such are just turd party vote stealers in the pay of republicans like Ralph Nader.
Translation:
LIBWOOLS IZZ AWESUM, WHEEEEE!
NADER IS AN EVIL RETHUGLICAN BECAUSE HE CHALLENGED AWESUM LIBWOOLS! EVIL! EVIL!
"Vote stealers."
ReplyDeleteCan I please abandon my commitment to non-violence now?
WTF? I think you've found the missing link between pwogs and freepers, CF.
ReplyDeleteI dunno, Ms. X. Maybe it's time to revive the ideo of 'mercy killing.'
It would be easier to take you seriously if you didn't use 'tard' as a way to insult your opponents.
ReplyDeleteFunny you should mention that, Anon. I served my time on places like Alas and strove to become as kindly and polite as the various and sundry overlords wanted.
ReplyDeleteFrom the first day to the last, it made exactly zero difference in how "seriously" anyone out there took 3rd Party politics. If anything, the attitude went backward, even while I was trying to move my style of dialoguing "forward" to what most readers claimed they simply had to have before I could get the respect that I wanted.
So I can't speak for Smithee, and I don't care for the various and sundry permutations of "retard" when I'm talking/writing. Unfortunately, experience has also taught me that you and others like you are likely blowing smoke up my, er, nose when you claim that Smithee is just one kindly word away from getting masses of Demos on board the 3rd Party train.
Jeez, Xeno, that's not a claim I was making. I'm just saying that people who use 'retard' or its variations as an insult aren't that far away from people who use 'faggot' or 'nigger' as an insult.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't an issue of being kind or polite to your opponents, it's an issue of not using really fucked up language to insult people.
Put another way, it's not that we refrain from calling Ann Coulter a 'tranny' because we give a fuck about hurting her feelings, we do it because using 'trannie' as an insult hurts transfolks.
And of course the fact that Alan Smithee does this so regularly makes me question the fit of his 'I am a true progressive/radical/leftist, unlike all those pwoggies' crown. I mean, hopefully true radicals don't engage in hate speech, right? Or at least they shouldn't.
I'm so afraid of "hate speech" I've stopped talking, and resort now to posting on the Internet, lecturing people as "Anonymous."
ReplyDeleteWorship me.
"I'm just saying that people who use 'retard' or its variations as an insult aren't that far away from people who use 'faggot' or 'nigger' as an insult."
ReplyDeleteThen write *that*, Anon. Don't hinge the usage of an offensive term on whether you can take a whole raft of other issues seriously or not.
Because, y'know, I really want to believe that expunging hurtful/offensive terminology from my vocabulary will make the world a better place. Then I take one more trip over to the spaces where these terms are unwelcome, and I read justification after justification of absolutely obscene and unforgivable acts perpetrated by Democrats-- excused over and over again by legions of Pwogs in their nice, pretty, expunged little monologues and dialogues.
I see wholesale ignoring of not just sites like this, but feeds like OnTheWilderSide, which are very committed to the kind of writing you're advocating here. Do you ever read sites like that? Is there a Prog Blog out there that ever links to them? I've never seen one, yet I have the nagging suspicion that if a single offensive term got through the net, you Pwogs would be all over it. See? See? That's the way those Dirty Greenies are! Uncultured! Bigoted! See? Ironically, you confirm the practical value of offensive speech;it gets attention when nothing else apparently can/will. I guess all those years of watching your leaders play footsie with the Right and its pundit brigade has at least taught you something.
And I draw the conclusion that Democrats are intolerant assholes hopelessly in love with their cozy closed "Bipartisan" shop, and just using stylistics as a bullshit smokescreen while they snub and/or bully people whom they never intended to treat in any other fashion, ever.
Christ, I'm not askign for worship, I'm just saying that there are some insults that are okay (asshole, idiot, sellout, fucker) and some that are not (retard, faggot, nigger).
ReplyDeleteI dont think that this is all that controversial, is it?
To emphasize again: I've got no problem with insulting Democrats. Call them asshole-o-crats or something. I've got no problem with insulting fake progressive bloggers, and though I think 'pwog' sounds like a Super Mario villain or something, I don't think it's offensive.
All I'm saying is that using 'retard' as an insult is uncool.
Well, actually now I'm also saying that that fact that I'm getting such pushback on it is kind of surprising.
Also, Ms. Xeno: using 'retard' as an insult doesn't hurt Demos. It doesn't hurt pwoggers. It makes it easier for them to ignore you, just as you'd ignore someone who started out an argument with, "all those worthless niggers in congress."
ReplyDeleteThe people it does hurt are learning disabled people and their family and friends. And they're not your enemies.
And, despite your stupid fucking assumptions, neither am I. Yeah, third parts get the shitty end of the stick way too often. Yeah, there are a lot of fake-ass wannabe progressive bloggers out there who don't give a shit that Obama is ramping the war machine way the fuck up, and that one of his very first acts was to normalize torture and secret prisons in a way that Bush never could, because Obama does it with the tacit approval of not one but BOTH mainstream parties, and yeah, that needs to change.
I don't give shit to the Democrats. Not my time, not my money, not my vote.
But you know, the fact that when I say, "you are saying something really offensive (not offensive to your opponents, but offensive to innocent third parties), and you do it regularly, and you shouldn't" the response is not "whoops, my bad," it's "BUT THE DEMS SURE SUCK," well, that makes me question whether this lot is any better.
That's the same fucking argument the Dems use! Don't you get it?
"Here's this awful thing you're doing"
"Oh, but the other side does awful shit too"
"Oh, well, I guess that that makes it okay, then."
Fuck.
Freepers have a similar problem, Ms. X. I think it's something endemic to any closed, cult-like society. Polite speech is reserved for those already in the club.
ReplyDeleteTake the average Obot demotard, for example. Dipshits like Anony will scream epithets at you all-caps style on the pwoggie blogs, then turn around and accuse you of offending their coral pink little ears for mentioning Ralph Nader's name.
So, yeah, fuck 'em. These pwoggie bloggie dipshits have long forfeited any right to polite speech as far as I'm concerned. They can ram their oh-so delicate sensibilities right up their collective ass.
Then my recommendation to you, Anon, is to find a Lefty board where they don't use terminology that you consider offensive. As I said, they are out there.
ReplyDeleteAnd I hope you spend as much time lecturing the Big Box Demo Blogs about their failings as you do lecturing a scraggly bunch of obscure Lefty bloggers about our failings.
Keep it up, Anony. Nobody here is impressed with your "I'm so concerned about the mentally handicapped" bullshit and no one is here to persuade you or your fauxgressive friends of shit. We're here to laugh at you.
ReplyDeleteI dunno', Smithee. I have a long, long list of terminology that I'd be happy to never see online or hear IRL, ever again. In addition to being offensive, it's also uncreative.
ReplyDeleteThe only real difference between my preferences and Anon's is that I don't think getting my preferences catered to is going to create a more humane world. It does make it easier for me to go around the internet without a Costco-sized bottle of aspirin, however.
I'm greedy. I want it all: good speech and good action. I've also accepted that I'm not gonna' get it all. :/
Yeah, that's right, you fucking morons. Anyone who dares to criticize your oh so perfect speech MUST be a Democrat, right? Believing that is SO much easier than considering that maybe you fucked up. Believing that is SO much easier than a little fucking self reflection.
ReplyDeleteWell, have fun thinking up some new slurs to use. Maybe next you can start calling Obama a 'wetback kike' and all the Democrats 'spic cunts,' then you can all jack each other off about how fucking progressive you are.
And that's nothing at all like freepers.
Oh no, certainly not.
You're not the least little bit like them.
Trouble is, Anon, I could "self-reflect" until the cows come home, and it still wouldn't mean fuck-all to the people in Smithee's rogue's gallery. Great. We agree that using "-tard" is a suffix is hurtful and stupid. What happens after that? Anything else? Civilized discourse is great, but only if it actually leads to something beyond more civilized discourse.
ReplyDeleteNothing will mean anything to those folks, unless I can turn the clock back twenty years and scrape my head on the ground for some Democrat like I used to. And I reiterate, there are plenty of Lefty blogs out there that would be to your liking, if you're sincere about finding them.
Well, actually now I'm also saying that that fact that I'm getting such pushback on it is kind of surprising.
ReplyDeleteWhat I find surprising is that you feel physically "pushed" by someone making fun of your totally unconvincing play at puritanism. Yes, that's shocking all right.
PS: "Anonymous," well done with the Lakoff-styled framing of the terms of debate. Clearly everyone's thoughts --which you have yet to divine, I remind you-- are dismissible by dint of the term "-tard" being tossed about. Yes, that's high culture you're upholding there. Brillo.
ReplyDeleteI suspect Anony's outrage over my language is little more than a convenient excuse. Note the big fucking deal he makes about how the pwogs will "ignore" me if I offend their oh-so delicate sensibilities - as if I gave a shit.
ReplyDeleteI'd even give two shits!
ReplyDeletehttp://funk.co.uk/blogshit/shits/shit_9.jpg
I'll see your two shits and raise you a wet fart!
ReplyDeleteActually, there were a few comments setting the Liberals straight on what Zinn was, and wasn't.
ReplyDeleteMy personal favorite comment on that thread -- short, sweet, and devestating:
Zinn changed minds. Obama changed addresses.
"Zinn changed minds. Obama changed addresses."
ReplyDeleteWell, that's probably the most accurate thing written in this entire thread.
Oxtrot wrote:
ReplyDelete"...Brillo..."
???
Shouldn't corporate product placements be a bannable offense, at least if they're unauthorized like this?
heh heh heh heh
ReplyDeletemaybe I was referring to Clarence Thomas's sodapop can pubic hair?
maybe I was referring to steel wool generally?
or maybe I made up a new contraction for "brilliant".
regardless, I demand my royalty be paid now!
@ Charles F. Oxtrot:
ReplyDelete"Vote stealer"? P'ahh ha ha ha ha hahh. I love how the Demotards are still wringing their hands over '00. They really do still think that it's Ralph Nader's fault that they nominated a boring-assed, arrogant, know-it-all corporate tool who ran a phoned-in campaign and didn't even have the balls to take his own side in a fight.
It's pretty astounding to see they're still hammering on that tired old "vote stealing" riff. You can almost hear the sense of entitlement oozing out of a Demotard's pores as he bitches and whines about Ralph Nader exercising his right as a citizen to run for public office and provide a choice for people trapped in a system where there are no real choices. What motherfucking gall that Nader had, huh? Looks like back when he should've been in Civics class, your average Demotard was out sneaking a cigarette by the football field. Protip for Demotards: your party's votes weren't "stolen" because they don't fucking belong to you; they belong to the people, and have to be earned, you dumb motherfucker.
In '04 I broke my promise to myself to never vote again after '00, after having a huge fight with the DW over my calling bullshit on Kerry and the Demotards and telling everybody I could about it, and telling them to vote for Nader or stay home. The DW pitched a huge fit, calling me a "subversive" and reminding me in an ominous tone, "remember, anybody but Bush". That pissed me off enough to motivate me to vote for Nader again. Still, I haven't voted since then at any level -- local, citywide, or national.
@ Anonymous:
Demotard, Demotard, Demotard.
So, there. "Civility" is overrated. Screw you.
And with that, Anony skipped off to his room for a good pout.
ReplyDeleteThe End.
Have I mentioned, BTW, that Oregon just voted to raise the minimum corporate income tax for the first time in about eighty years? Chalk up to the shit economy that a crucial chunk of voters temporarily forgot to be delusional idjits who are just that one Powerball ticket away from The Good Life.
ReplyDeleteI really wish I were Mike F., because I'd love to draw a fancy-ass cartoon of all the big-name corporate whiners here (Nike, et al-- who spent a shitload of money to plead that they were too poor to pay more than ten fucking dollars in taxes per year) re-enacting that last flight on that last helicopter out of Saigon, if you get my drift.
Mike -- aaaahhhh, exactly.
ReplyDeleteToday I was talking to a friend about hard-sell tactics. He owns a bike shop. Reputable mid-size brand MTB co wants him to carry their bikes. Friend says "maybe one at a time, but I have no interest in carrying a line... happy to carry catalogs and order them one at a time." Rep insists things will work out better if fleet orders happen. Better for whom?
The idea that people owe their votes to Democratic candidates, no matter who are those candidates... it reminds me of the same objection I have to the hard sell. Voting for a Democrat that I don't like, just to vote for a Democrat... that's better for whom?
ms_xeno writes...
ReplyDeleteHave I mentioned, BTW, that Oregon just voted to raise the minimum corporate income tax for the first time in about eighty years?
Yeah, caught that news yesterday. Huzzah, boo yah! The first thing I heard as I emerged from REM phase this morning was Joe Scarborough and his minions pissing and moaning about that. For the first few seconds I was awake I didn't know what they were bitching about, but as soon as I was coherent enough to realize they were talking about the Oregon vote, I got a big smile on my sleepy face; it was music to my ears to hear Scarborough and crew howling about how horrible it was. P'ah, yeah, choke on this rod, muthafuckahs.
ms_xeno writes...
I really wish I were Mike F., because I'd love to draw a fancy-ass cartoon of all the big-name corporate whiners here (Nike, et al-- who spent a shitload of money to plead that they were too poor to pay more than ten fucking dollars in taxes per year) re-enacting that last flight on that last helicopter out of Saigon, if you get my drift.
As far as a cartoon about that one... yeah, that'd be a helluva topic, except I'm not sure how many people remember -- and savored, as I did -- the iconic news foto of the last chopper leaving the roof of the US Embassy with, iirc, a small gaggle of desperate Vietnamese hanging onto the landing gear.
Also, right now, I'm incubating an idea about President Timberlake's proposed spending "freeze" on everything but the military and "security"-related spending, and trying to figure out how to do it without "Herblocking" it -- that is, labeling all the symbolic metaphorical figures (all you other old Herblock fans, you know what I'm talking about)... y'know, like:
http://sinkers.org/stage/?p=536
http://sinkers.org/stage/?p=517
Sadly, I don't have a major city daily paying me a decent salary to come up with a cartoon every day -- my big dream as a kid cartoonist on my high-school paper was to one day take Herblock's job -- so I'm kind of stuck trying to sneak in a cartoon whenever I can while trying to rustle up some work, so the Oregon topic will probably get "cold" before I can come up with anything, while the "spending freeze" brouhaha will be "hot" for a while.
"Trouble is, Anon, I could "self-reflect" until the cows come home, and it still wouldn't mean fuck-all to the people in Smithee's rogue's gallery. Great. We agree that using "-tard" is a suffix is hurtful and stupid. What happens after that? Anything else?"
ReplyDeleteWhy does that matter to this conversation? Ending the use of ableist language is a positive end in and of itself. I don't see how anyone can claim to be a true progressive--to the point where you feel like you get to be the arbiter of who is a real progressive and who is a "pwog"--and not understand that basic concept.
And not one of you has defended the use of abelist language or explained how it doesn't hurt disabled people. All most of you have done is deflect and insult anyone who calls you on your own bullshit.